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microfische1 Offline
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United States
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Posted - 01/15/2008 :  21:41:08  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thought this would be a good discussion topic. I have been an obsessed fan of the Lady and will continue to be till I die, but I also know the difference between hollywood and reality, so my question is it possible to create a helicopter that can disengauge its rotors as Airwolf did and fly with turbines or is this just tv, or is there one in existince today. Thanks Rich

Rising_Atlantis Away
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United Kingdom
372 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2008 :  23:04:12  Show Profile Away  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well they do exist - Gyroplanes. They work on the same principle that forward thrust keeps the rotors turning enough to keep the machine airborne.

Whether it could achieve supersonic speeds is simply unknown but with enough flexibility I don't see why it shouldn't. If the blades were rigid, they would snap. Flexible blades would have a better chance.

Currently it is just TV. There have been some odd similar experiments but none of them led to much.
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C00nhunterJoe Offline
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Posted - 01/16/2008 :  01:31:27  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
the closest thing made publicy visable is the commanche, while it cant do mach speeds it is armor plated and can outrun any other choppers and deploy weapons as airwolf did

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corvettekid_7684 Offline
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Posted - 01/16/2008 :  02:20:50  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believe something close to an Airwolf helicopter is possible, within reason...look at the Sikorsky XH-59, it had extra turbine engine for forward thrust and much higher speeds.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal4/3001-3100/Gal3070_XH-59A_McIntyre/gal3070.htm

http://unicopter.com/0891.html

With modern technology and materials to bring weight down, more powerful modern engines, etc. and I think it would be a real contender. Combine what this helicopter has with that of the Comanche and your pretty darn close. If something like this were made into a real "aerodynamic lifting body" the disengaging rotor system might be possible, but not to Mach speeds.

The closest real thing to Airwolf, IMO, would be the S-67 prototype...
http://www.answers.com/topic/sikorsky-s-67


And then there is the AH-56, which used a pusher prop and "unloaded" it's main rotor...

http://www.answers.com/topic/ah-56-cheyenne


"Bring the attack computer online and stand by for turbo ignition"

Edited by - corvettekid_7684 on 01/16/2008 02:26:02
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airwolf3526 Offline
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Canada
314 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2008 :  02:46:56  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
and who know's what area-51 has up their sleeve too in regards of helicopters, or skunk-works.
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WolfHaven Away
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United States
260 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2008 :  06:13:02  Show Profile Away  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
06/22/2005 BAE Systems is developing a new electronic warfare tool for Special Operations. Under DARPA development, the new weapon, called "Wolf", is a small "can", designed to be dropped from unmanned aircraft in a battlezone. The Wolf would then sit in enemy territory and monitor communications transmissions from 30Mhz to 20Ghz, jamming when necessary or pinpointing the location of the transmission to within 33 feet. The developmental Wolf measures just under 5 inches in diameter and 24 inches long. BAE would like to see the device achieve its intended size of 4 inches in diameter and 10 inches long. DARPA has also initiated work on a self-propelled, unmanned version, dubbed "Airwolf" that can take off vertically, transition to horizontal flight, then land vertically. The Airwolf is recoverable and able to fly to specific combat areas where the Wolf technology is needed, recharging its batteries during the flight. When dispersed in large numbers, the Wolf system (Wolf Pack) is a self-forming network that has the ability to adjust and redistribute workloads, even if one of the devices is compromised by the enemy. The Wolf Pack of devices automatically decide which device will be the "master", leaving the rest to be "slaves". The ultimate goal of DARPA is to use Wolf Pack to deny the enemy RF capabilities or make anyone who uses an RF device vulnerable to attack. Okay...so we'll stop talking on our cellphones while we drive!!
http://www.gtaeronautics.com/IndNews.html

Courage does not always roar. Sometimes courage is the small, quiet voice at the end of the day saying, I will try again tomorrow.
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Sindarin Offline
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United States
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Posted - 01/16/2008 :  06:50:56  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just wanted to explain why we have not seen a Helicopter break the sound barrier yet. Helicopters can't get to Mach because of retreating blade stall. Blades flap (seesaw like effect)on helicopters to equalize lift on both the advancing blade and retreating blade. Without the flapping the blades would have unequal lift which is not good. When going at a faster speed than what the blades can handle (VNE or never exceed speed) you will reach a critical angle of attack on the retreating blade. The retreating blade then stalls, while the advancing keeps producing lift. The result is the helicopter will roll and then pitch up. The ending has a non recovery and you die.

Even if the rotors could lock it would still be unable to produce equal lift at high speeds. Maybe someday they will fogure something out. Technology just is not there yet. I keep hoping one of you guys on the forum will be able to figure it out and I can test pilot for you.

Sin
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Fair_Owl Offline
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United Kingdom
291 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2008 :  10:27:20  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since Airwolf was described as an "Aerodynamic Lifting Body" - i.e. a fuselage that generates lift in its own right, rather than having wings, I guess it's feasible to imagine one of these which, once sufficient speed has been reached to allow full lift, could somehow slow-down stow its rotors away...


from http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/space/lectures/lec21.html

O

Musings, modified images, screenplays, and more: http://www.airwolf.me.uk/
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Excelsior Offline
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United Kingdom
249 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2008 :  16:07:26  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I'd like to think there's the possbility of something like Airwolf existing. I don't think it's all that far-fetched - I mean look at Star Trek, and the ammount of similar technology that is in use today - mobile phones for example.
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mohvijan Offline
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United Kingdom
492 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2008 :  21:44:23  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sindarin

Just wanted to explain why we have not seen a Helicopter break the sound barrier yet. Helicopters can't get to Mach because of retreating blade stall. Blades flap (seesaw like effect)on helicopters to equalize lift on both the advancing blade and retreating blade. Without the flapping the blades would have unequal lift which is not good. When going at a faster speed than what the blades can handle (VNE or never exceed speed) you will reach a critical angle of attack on the retreating blade. The retreating blade then stalls, while the advancing keeps producing lift. The result is the helicopter will roll and then pitch up. The ending has a non recovery and you die.

Even if the rotors could lock it would still be unable to produce equal lift at high speeds. Maybe someday they will fogure something out. Technology just is not there yet. I keep hoping one of you guys on the forum will be able to figure it out and I can test pilot for you.

Sin



No wonder the blades have a "popping" sound, because usually the blades are spinning faster than the speed of sound, and way, faster than the fuselage

-Moh

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prophetrevolution Offline
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United States
41 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2008 :  13:17:25  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
Airwolf was designed to land next to other corporate executive helicopters and not stand out like some "warbird" would like a huey with guns on both sides. Now the reality of gun ships just flying around L.A. all the time and over the greater southwest area or anywhere else for that matter is some what farfetched. Which brings me to the question why there weren't more helicopters similar to Airwolf that could pop and uzi out of the bottom of it. LOL.
Now, If Airwolf were for real, even the size of fitting the lower turbines alongside where the wingletts are, would be possible, but not Mach 1 capable. Look at the big 737's you normally fly that have those huge engines, and they only go 600 miles per hour. Maybe I'm wrong on engine size, and it don't matter. I'm sure 4 jet engines could work at making the helicopter go faster, but like everyone says you run into the rotor stall problem.
Another thing that you gotta think about, is the storage capabilities for how many missles that can be held in airwolf. Along with the bullets for the chain guns. In which, I don'tthink i've seen a gun that fires yet, that has a barrel that slides out to make it longer. Don't get me wrong here, I liked the show and I am totally in love with the mammal appeal of the shark lady. okay a shark is a fish, not a mammal but you get the drift.
But I gotta be a critic as well too. And then consider all the hydralics. for the ADF pod doors opening, and then the pod popping out, and the chain gun wingletts opening, and of course hydralics for the landing gear and everything else a helicopter needs hydralics for. ?And then the biggest issue, is where does the fuel go. You got bullets firing, and missles firing and coming out magically, and then you still got fuel so Airwolf can fly cross country chasing a nuclear missle without refueling along the way>?? LOL I could go on, but i'm tired. should be in bed already. If I had the money, I'd get an airwolf replica that i could actually fly and I would be happy.

But If Airwolf were real, Mach One wouldn't be possible, the guns would have to be mounted out where they were visible. Missles would be hooked to the bottom of it, unless there was no rear passenger compartment. The wingletts would have to be a bit longer just to provide stability with the turbine engines. And then it would obviously be a military item so landing it on top of an executive building without having some one call homeland security, would be just plane luck. thats my bit for this morning.
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C00nhunterJoe Offline
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Posted - 01/18/2008 :  03:46:56  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
we have helicopters with mid-air refueling capablity.
we have helicopters with retracable rocket launchers and retracable "chain guns"
we have helicopters that are armor plated with armored glass
we have helicopters that are nearly invisible to radar

we do not have a helicopter that is black and white
we do not have a helicopter that flies mach 1

here is the closest to airwolf in todays standards
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAH-66_Comanche

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corvettekid_7684 Offline
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United States
1200 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2008 :  17:01:46  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
Comanche is a huge waste of money. If the USAF hadnt thrown a fit over the AH-56 then we would have a capable attack helicopter. Not that the Comanche doesnt field some cool hardware like retractable weapons etc. The main reason we dont have a more Airwolf like helicopter today is because that role was taken up by the Harrier and the A-10...
Keeping true to the main post in this thread, yes, it is possible to have a helicopter disengage it's rotors and fly propelled by turbines (or pusher prop in the case of the AH-56). Mach 1 is a bit of a stretch, but may be possible with a stopped rotor design...

While I am on my rant, the V-22 Osprey is also a huge waste of money and a major POS

"Bring the attack computer online and stand by for turbo ignition"

Edited by - corvettekid_7684 on 01/18/2008 17:12:09
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C00nhunterJoe Offline
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Posted - 01/19/2008 :  01:35:54  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
i agree with the osprey, while a neat craft to play with it is big, bulky and REALLY loud. i had no idea how much noise that thing made till it landed at work! however i completly disagree with the commanche opinion, after having my hands on it, the media gave it a bad name and i assure you it is very airwolf like and not a waste of money........
we will see a new copter in the near enough future since the awesome a-10 is a dying craft, i beleive we only have 10-15 years left in its service before a mandatory retirement is in order. it was discontinued then brought back after the tools and dies were long gone. the only reason it is still in service is guys who dedicate there time,for lack of a better word, dumpsterdiving in old aircraft to put them back together and weld up the airframes that are falling apart.

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corvettekid_7684 Offline
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United States
1200 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2008 :  15:21:51  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
Comanche cost $7 billion, has been in development for 20 years, and there still arent any in service. Plus it basically does the same thing as the exsisting Apache (tank killer). It was supposed to be a low cost, easy to maintain scout/attack helicopter that came in under the Apache in the pecking order. I'm not saying the Comanche isnt capable, just that the Army couldnt figure out what it wanted and that drove cost up, as well as development time out. Now, if that $7 billion was invested into the AH-56 instead, than we might just have something close to Airwolf today. It also used up most of the Army's budget for the rest their entire fleet of aircraft.
As far as the V-22, well, the current version is does what it is supposed to, but why use a complicated tilt rotor design? Why wasnt a compound helicopter chosen instead? Now that the V-22 is going into service, we need an escourt aircraft that can keep up with it. The AH-1 Cobra cant. The Apache cant. The Comanche cant. Most airplanes would be too fast. It needs something like to AH-56. I know that the Sikorsky XH-59 has been looked at, but may be considered too old. An armed version of the V-22 may also be considered, but I question how well that idea would work out. I cant see the V-22 being very nimble...

"Bring the attack computer online and stand by for turbo ignition"
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C00nhunterJoe Offline
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Posted - 01/23/2008 :  03:33:47  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
i have no care in the world for the v-22, ugly, and well, ugly. cant go nto any other details.
20 years in development for the commanche menas nothing, do you know how long things are kept secret in development?

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corvettekid_7684 Offline
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United States
1200 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2008 :  14:50:07  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
My point is, 20 years with nothing more to show than 2 prototypes?? I could understand that if the Comanche started out that it was supposed to be some sort of super chopper, but it wasnt. The Army just didnt know what the heck they wanted from it. It is a fine machine. Perhaps I should re-phrase and say that a lot of money was wasted on it...

"Bring the attack computer online and stand by for turbo ignition"
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C00nhunterJoe Offline
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Posted - 01/24/2008 :  00:48:55  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
or thats what they want you to think

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Airwolf4life Offline
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United States
525 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2008 :  09:44:17  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
There better be a real Airwolf one day because I want one.
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prophetrevolution Offline
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United States
41 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2008 :  12:19:23  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
When I win the powerball this year, I'm buying a Bell 222 A and i'm gonna outfit it to look like Airwolf. Everyone cross you're fingers for me.
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corvettekid_7684 Offline
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United States
1200 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2008 :  20:46:19  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
I dont think there is much denying that the Comanche is the result of the LHX program. This was intended to replace the OH-58 Kiowa Warrior and AH-1 Cobra, coming in UNDER the Apache in the attack role. It's surveillance equipment was to pass data to the Apaches. I've heard that they may actually start producing these yet still. If they are made in high enough quantities than that would reduce cost per aircraft. The question right now is, do we need it? The problem with the Comanche is the same as with Airwolf. It's a Cold War weapon, but the threats on the battlefield have changed.
I'm still going to stick by the AH-56 as the closest thing to Airwolf. It had sophisticated targeting, fire control, moving map displays, NOE high speed flying, unloaded it rotor system and used a secondary propulsion method. It was armed to the teeth, just not with internal stores.
The Comanche's modern electronics, stealthy airframe and internal weapons make it a very close second. Now let's see these two machines combined, he he he

"Bring the attack computer online and stand by for turbo ignition"
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corvettekid_7684 Offline
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United States
1200 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2008 :  21:23:01  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
Has anybody seen the Kamov Ka-58 Black Ghost?? Obviously a Ruskie Comanche knockoff (perhaps not even real) but this thing looks killer!!!

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C00nhunterJoe Offline
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Posted - 01/27/2008 :  02:44:32  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
oh, but what you see about the commanche online and the videos the government released are no match for actually getting to put your hands on the real thing and be in that cockpit.

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VampsKiss Offline
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United States
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Posted - 01/27/2008 :  07:01:27  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
lisa here
To be honest a real Airwolf is not that far off, I you know the Airforce has a jet chopper that can fly at speeds of a 747 or a B-52. They have practiced putting a pilot into an aircraft if you remember the Airport movies. The Army had a gunship that was a Bell222 so how much longer till they master mach 1 who knows. Only problem I see is it will not look like the present Airwolf we know and love.

Now this Concludes the Airwolf Festivites, Tune in again same Airwolf time same Airwolf Forum.
Airwolf is like discovering the lost ark your always going fight,
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VampsKiss Offline
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United States
242 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2008 :  07:09:17  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lisa here
CorvetteKid question want is Mach 1 in the air? I think mach1 on the ground is 750 MPH remember I think maybe Im wrong. Im sure in the air its less but not by much. So Mach1 should be possible in a new helicopter that could handle the stress to the airframe, Im thinking the stress is whats holding us back on a AirWolf helicopter.

Now this Concludes the Airwolf Festivites, Tune in again same Airwolf time same Airwolf Forum.
Airwolf is like discovering the lost ark your always going fight,
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NW86281 Offline
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United Kingdom
64 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2008 :  15:43:50  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
do you really want to see a real airwolf though. I'm not sure as it will never match up to the image we have of the lady. Even though she is fictional, it won't be the same to see a real helicopter do what she could do. It won't be the same.
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C00nhunterJoe Offline
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Posted - 01/27/2008 :  16:01:55  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
airwolf exists today with the exception of mach1. that is our only hurdle to overcome. no current technology is in place to successfully defeat retreating blade stall

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corvettekid_7684 Offline
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United States
1200 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2008 :  15:01:27  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actaully, I dont think retreating blade stall is the problem. That only limits forward speed when using the rotors to propel the aircraft. The XH-59 didnt have RBS problems, and I dont think the AH-56 did either, as the rotors could be made to produce no lift. Mach speeds might be an issue, but we could have a heli with much much more capability as far as speed and maneuverability is concerned. Most all the rest of Airwolf's equipment exists already, so that is possible. (maybe not exactly like Airwolf's, but close) The Comanche proves this. It's electronic suite is pretty much what a real Airwolf would have.

"Bring the attack computer online and stand by for turbo ignition"
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Rashaverak Offline
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United States
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Posted - 06/17/2011 :  09:38:06  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
This may be way late, this is normal for me, but there are rotor designs that incorporate the adjustment of the angle of the blades so that they will produce zero lift, so that design can cancel the retreating blade stall issue. As explained in the design of airwolf, this craft is built as a lifting body. Once the rotors are angled to produce zero lift, turbofans can produce the propulsion necessary for the lifting body to maintain lift. This, aong with a larger size of craft overall may allow enough space to store enough fuel for combat missions and sparing usage of turbine boost. As airwolf is capable of mid-air refueling, this can extent the craft's range to long distances. This is all feasable, but never fully tested as of yet. The Bell 222 is a relatively small design that is well used in medical applications as "Life Flight", it's size makes it possible to land in city intersections. Obviously, the Bell 222 does have a good range as is, including the aforementioned mid-air refueling capable of the depicted distance traveling in the movie, although not at mach speeds the whole way. As I am an airframe maintenance tech, I know the airframe can withstand the pressure of mach flight, but that would require more maintenance. The missles for that matter can be loaded as a smaller payload but with the same destructive result with the current weapons tech of today. The fuel would need to take the largest amount of storage. And on the mention of the size needed of the engines, there are some aircraft designs that were way early, like the Bell Airacomet, that had small engine sizes introduced into the wingroots. Again, with todays tech, easily downsized. With all this said, today Airwolf is possible, but the need, or the practicality of it is, unfortunately, no longer there.

The one question I always had about the series...
Where does String get all the ammo?
And don't tell me that the Firm delivers it all to him, String is hiding the Helio

quote:
Originally posted by corvettekid_7684

Actaully, I dont think retreating blade stall is the problem. That only limits forward speed when using the rotors to propel the aircraft. The XH-59 didnt have RBS problems, and I dont think the AH-56 did either, as the rotors could be made to produce no lift. Mach speeds might be an issue, but we could have a heli with much much more capability as far as speed and maneuverability is concerned. Most all the rest of Airwolf's equipment exists already, so that is possible. (maybe not exactly like Airwolf's, but close) The Comanche proves this. It's electronic suite is pretty much what a real Airwolf would have.

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corvettekid_7684 Offline
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United States
1200 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2011 :  00:50:26  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I'd say the FIRM DOES deliver the ammo to String, just not directly to the lair...it would have to be to Santini Air..

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bphendri Offline
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United States
93 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2011 :  18:08:15  Show Profile Offline  Send Private Message  Reply with Quote
Vampkiss, a helicopter that can fly the speed of a 747, or a B52?
First question.. Just how fast, or in this case slow do you think a 747 flies?
What do you think the top recorded speed of a helicopter is?
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